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The Dill Pickle Club held its innagural event Sunday, June 28, a “ride and learn” bike tour of Works Progress  Administration sites such as the Paul Grellert’s mural at the Morrisson Street post office, Eastmoreland Golf Course, and a spooky abandoned shack in Forest Park.
The Portland Alliance spoke with one of the new Dill Pickle organizers, Marc Moscato, about the origins and goals of the new Dill Pickle group. This interview was edited for length and clarity.
Alliance: How did you and your friends begin working on the new version of The Dill Pickle Club?
M: About 6 years ago I started a research project on this guy Dr. Ben Reitman, who was one of the co-founders of The Dill Pickle Club, he was the club’s publicist, really, and a character who would hang around Bug House square and the other free speech forums of Chicago, and I wound up making this documentary on him for a show. It’s just a short piece, 12 minutes long. So I showed that piece, I talked a little bit, and this has just been sort of an ongoing research project for the last 6 years which has manifested itself into an art exhibition which I did in Chicago in April of this year and its also turned into a little publication, and this documentary and an event series, and a number of little things.
Then so basically after that we had surveys available, a 6 questions survey, with questions like, what is an ideal event? What, if any, interesting or engaging cultural events have you been to in the last six months? You know, so, very basic, broad questions, just to get what kind of subjects people are interested in hearing about or learning about, what makes for a dynamic event? A number of people said they liked, you know, interactive, participatory events, or, say, they didn’t like to necessarily sit down for events for, you know, two-and-a-half hours or something, or something where maybe you’re moving around a little bit. So we were basically trying to collect this information and now we’re sort of going forth and planning the first series of events. The Mother’s Day meeting was really a pre-event, it wasn’t officially a kick-off or anything.
J: On Mother’s Day at Liberty Hall you had your first meeting of the advisory board of this new incarnation of the Dill Pickle Club. But a lot of people have never heard of the Dill Pickle club, and those who have may not understand why so many people think that the time is right to recreate it. Could you tell us, first, a little about the Dill Pickle Club? I know it was a place where hobos could mix with doctors and other people and have a sort of an intellectual life, but could you go into that?
M: Sure, sure. The Dill Pickle Club was started by a guy named Jack Jones, Jack John Archibald Jones. He was a union member of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW). He was kind of this crazy character. He had supposedly cross-eyes and only one hand and he was rumored to have been a bomb-maker, which is unfounded, but he was lovers with Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, who was a famous IWW labor organizer, and in 1914, or thereabouts, he started a series of labor forums at a place called the Radical Book Shop in Chicago, and within just a couple months of doing these the events exceeded the shop’s capacity. He decided to go forth and purchase this dilapidated barn and fix it up. It was on Chicago’s near North side, and it was basically like a cafe, it was a speakeasy, where they would have intellectual discussions, they would have professors from both the local universities and universities around the country, very distinguished speakers kind of talk there. And they also had hobos come and talk there, and prostitutes would hang out there, so it was an incredible mix of people. That to me is really interesting, creating a good mix of people, I think that’s actually one of the ways in which we learn, not necessarily everyone agreeing with one another. I heard a story of a forum on religion, and they had a Buddhist, you know like a monk, debate an ordained minister, debate an atheist, so they weren’t necessarily saying any which way is right but just, in the true spirit of democracy, maybe even setting up purposeful differences of opinion...
J: Sure.
M: which is actually fairly rare, I find.
J: Right, I was going to say, how do you plan on addressing that, because in my experience people are actually very uncomfortable with real disagreement. We’ve lost as a culture these skills to deal with that, the cultured way of talking, of disagreeing on basic issues and still being decent to one another, and also people aren’t very comfortable with not knowing the outcome of things beforehand. They want to know that the good guys going to lose and the bad guys going to win, and they even carry that into discussion of political or religious issues.
M: We thought about it a little bit, but I think ultimately letting the public decide what they believe is the truth is probably, you know...just bringing back that spirit of debate, and having things that are a little outside of the box for Portland. I guess bringing multiple perspectives, for instance the sit/lie ordinance is a contentious issue, so maybe its getting the Portland Business Alliance to talk to Sisters of the Road Cafe, I don’t know if that’s possible, but two completely divergent groups to sit down and have a discussion with an audience...
J: Have you found a venue yet? Are you concerned that there is so much going on in Portland that you’ll be lost in the sea of shows and other things going on?
M: I would certainly hope not. As to whether we’ve found a venue or not, we’re actually very interested in growing very organically, to grow it very slowly. So the first event we want to do, we’re going to have a bicycle field trip of Works Project Administration projects in Portland, sort of looking back towards the New Deal, what can be learned from this. We’re still actually trying to pin down a date, but it’s likely going to be around the end of June, the last weekend in June. For that event, I’m imagining no more than 40 or 50 people, at maximum, otherwise it’s not going to be intimate. At that point you can’t really have a bike tour without a megaphone. So I think that even creating something small, something intimate, can be very meaningful and very enjoyable and very worthwhile. Then just growing it from there, and seeing what transpires. So we’re going to start out with a roving sort of thing where we’re not necessarily committed to one particular venue. So the idea is that we’ll do one thing every single month, like, so, we’re still waiting to sort of hear back from this first event, but maybe every third Sunday afternoon we’ll get together and have an event. We’ll do something on a consistent basis every month for say six to eight months and just start doing programing. We have kind of an idea that we would like to create an actual physical center, a physical space, but until that time I think its important just to kind of build community support around the idea of the space. I’ve seen so many organizations fail because they have this giant plan and, uh, you know, all of a sudden they’re asking you for money when they haven’t even done anything. So our model is more just, like, start doing something small with what, you know, who you know, just invite your friends...
J: And let the community guide your growth.
M: Yeah, and, uh, you know, who knows, you know, sell beer to ‘em, and raise a little bit of money and just put that money, any money that is made over the next six-to-eight months while we’re starting to do these roving, you know, events, will go back into the project and hopefully provide a little bit of seed money to actually invest in a storefront.
J : Cool. Well, is there any way for people to get in touch with you guys, or get involved?
M: Absolutely, yeah. So, you know, we’re still looking for input, if people want to get involved, we’re looking for a lot of different things: volunteers, people who are graphic designers, web-savvy people who might know html and that. We’ll have a website, and its Dillpickleclub.com, and that will give you more information about it. We’re working on building that up, and we really want to have a strong web presence, I think that’s really important to us. You know, I see the, actually, the internet is actually, and is a modern form of, almost, soap-boxing, very much in that spirit. The tools are readily available at anyone’s disposal to kind of put something out there in the world. At the same time I don’t see this as a replacement for actual physical real-time people coming together and discussing -
J: It’s quite the opposite, really.
M: Yeah, yeah, but it is one method in which to kind of continue and further discourse on something. So for instance we’re very interested in documenting everything. So, making podcasts available, making video feeds available, that sort of thing.
For those who don’t know about Lions of Batucada, I wanted to ask you a little about how you got started, and what was your hope/goal:
Since 1996, you’ve had some amazing performances, including playing at World Cup Soccer matches & the Disney Concert Hall, and along with Aerosmith, David Byrne, and locals Pink Martini. Did you expect this type of exposure when you formed the group, and how have you been received worldwide?
The Lions of Batucada were formed in late 1995, in part from a request by the Oregon Visitors Association for a samba styled ensemble to perform outside of OMSI to welcome the 18,000 guests they had coming to Portland. They were directed to me, hearing that I might be the one who could put something like this together. I love all Brazilian music, had studied with Nana Vasconcelos and Airto among others, had the instruments, and so called around twenty of my favorite musician friends together - taught a few breaks and what I knew of how to make it swing, named the group - and we did the show.
It went over very well, and a bunch of other musicians - hearing that this was going to happen - came to check it out. Many wanted to see it continue, and my friend Derek Reith was a big advocate in making certain that it did. From that point I considered him my co-founder, and huge thanks are due to him!
My goal then was to make sure it was going to be valid - so I left for seven weeks of study in Brazil. The day I returned to the States, my first stop was The California Brazil Camp (then in it’s first year), where I met, and became friends with one Jorge Alabe - a Mestre in the Rio style samba tradition, whom I invited to return to Portland with me; and things got better from there on out.
I have brought him back to Portland once or twice a year for the last eleven years now, and over the years since meeting, have spent a bunch of time with him in Rio de Janeiro as well.
A lot of other Lions have done the same.
I bring master musicians from Brazil and the States to Portland fairly regularly to work with the Lions, and also for presenting classes for the general public.
All of this helps me make sure what I am teaching is the correct information - be it the rhythms, or the “feel” of the music.
Randy Givens joined in early on, went to Brazil for study, and worked his way thru learning how to play all of the instruments : we now share duties as music directors, and he leads the group in our rehearsals and most live performances. Great fellow, great musician, and a huge asset for the group.
My goal now is making certain it remains valid.
The Lions have indeed enjoyed some amazing performances over the years (I would include opening for samba legends Grupo Fundo de Quintal in Seattle, and performing with the LA Philharmonic and Pink Martini at the Hollywood Bowl to what you have mentioned), and yes - I did know that we would be received like this. Samba batucada is very fun, infectious, exciting, and hard to sit still to. I knew that if we did it right, and played with heart --- it would be successful. That it continues to grow and thrive ...... that part is a little surprising!
And we do have a reputation of sorts: many know of us in many parts of the world , even though our performances have all been on the Westcoast.
I was recently traveling in Salvador , Brazil - and some guys came up to me and asked if I was the Brian from Lions of Batucada in the States. Floored me, and was very humbling.
The Lions are a very dedicated and hard working community; from all sorts of backgrounds and nationalities, and committed to playing the music correctly, and in my opinion - much deserving of the respect they do receive.
My hope was and is --- that we were always respectful of the culture we are interpreting , and to make a difference in the lives of the folks we performed for : we have, and we do.
Was dancing always incorporated into the group?
Right from the start.
Dancing and music are inseparable in all musics with African roots, and so it was important to have authentic dance, if we were going to attempt to represent the culture with integrity. Sheyla Mattos was here from the start, later joined by Renata Secco, both Brazilians, and fabulous dancers.
They, and a host of other great dancers, have always been with us.
From working in the early 90’s with Cathy Evleshin - then department chair for the now defunct PSU Dance Department - exploring music and dance from Brazil and elsewhere, I gained an immense amount of information and respect for the relationship between dance and music in Afrocentric cultures. Cathy is amazing! She later brought Almiro, a Capoeira Mestre from Salvador, Bahia - who, to this day, runs the Cultural Awareness Foundation and The Bahia Brazil Arts Center here in Portland (Capoeira classes, and where the Lions rehearse).
He too has provided a lot of valuable information.
Many of the breques and desenho’s (breaks and designs) in our performance, are fully choreographed and synced rhythmically with the music.
Same as for the music - we bring Brazilian choreographers to Portland, and send our dancers to California Brazil Camp to study.
This year - there is a plan for four of them to go with Renata to Brazil.
What was your musical background prior to forming Lions of Batucada, and how has directing the group added to your musical experience?
I have been a musician for most of my life. Surf bands in my youth, then rock, funk, reggae, rumba, jazz, and more. I have played and recorded with countless Portland groups - Upepo, Dub Squad, and McKinley are some favorites that come to mind : toured internationally with the Hawaiian pop-rock group Kalapana, and also toured and recorded with jazz legend Herbie Hancock.
At present I am a full time original member of Pink Martini, in addition do being a Lion.
I have always had my hand in arranging, and directing was an outgrowth of that.
With the help of my mentors, and studying the directors of the escolas in Rio - I feel I have gotten better at it over the years.
I worked and taught a number of years at a couple of the regional performing arts high schools (Jefferson and Vancouver School of Arts & Academics), taught a samba class at PSU for a couple more, and founded and direct the Ainsworth Jr. Escola (this year 117 ten - twelve yr. old kids playing samba!) , and have developed a fair amount of directing skills from those experiences also.
Directing opens your ears and sensibilities to hearing absolutely every single part being played at any given moment --- which of course in that attempt, and if successful - makes one a better musician. I’m getting there.
The skills gained working to keep large groups of humans happily interacting, and performing - I think have provided me with an insight that makes my day to day life more thoughtful and rewarding.
I also wanted to ask about your thoughts on Portland’s arts scene. How would you describe the music coming out of Portland, and how does Lions of Batucada fit in with other musical groups in the area?
Portland has always maintained a diverse and vibrant art and music scene. Not certain I have the answer for why that is - but it being a liberal population, and a decent (despite of all the rain) place to live, surely contributes to the support of that.
There has always been a variety of high quality, world touring groups and musicians coming out of Portland ... going from the likes of Tom Grant, Mel Brown, Obo Addy, and David Freisen, to rockers Quarterflash and Everclear, funk group Pleasure, pop stars Nu Shooz: Phil Baker and George Mitchell toured with Dianna Ross for over ten years - to at present - The Decemberists, The Jicks, M. Ward, and of course Pink Martini. There are so many more.
All of these acts and artists enjoyed great local support that enabled them to continue on to even larger success.
And there is everything : good quality bluegrass, all the variations of rock, electronica, folk, funk, hiphop, reggae, jazz .... all can be heard in Portland.
The galleries, though they come and go to some extent, have also been well supported. The first and last Thursday events, and the Saturday Market are always with big crowds.
We have Conduit - with Mary Oslund and Linda K. Johnson - and so many others keeping a vibrant dance scene alive, and regional theater always seems to maintain audiences big enough for survival.
How do the Lions of Batucada fit in with other local acts in this area? Easily. While we do something that is fairly unique to Portland, we do seem to fit in quite well with the creative musicians and groups in our area, having enjoyed many fruitful collaborations, and --- we have played in concert with everyone from The Dandy Warhols to The Oregon Symphony!
What do you think is missing in Portland’s cultural scene? Is the group filling a (former or current) void?
The Lions filled a void, and helped create a scene - as at the time of our inception - there were definitely no marching ensembles (outside of the traditional ones from the local schools), and definitely none playing Samba.
Now we have weekly Pagode , a dance company performing a hybrid of Cuban and Brazilian forms, Choro groups, a new, all female bateria, Bossa Nova groups, March Fourth (not samba, but with the right attitude), and Bloco’s and Bateria’s all up and down the Westcoast.
I know there was a bateria in San Francisco as early as the late eighties, but many of the rest followed the Lions.
Makes us proud to have played a part in that.
What might be missing in Portland is more live music venues that support these types of endeavors.
There used to be this fantastic club in Portland, Brasilia, where we would perform at least every other week : it was a local spot for all of the Brazilians living in the area along with everyone else, to gather, eat, hang out, and dance. Samba, Bossa Nova, Capoeira. That place was jumping.
They were early supporters of what we were up to - and are greatly missed. Nothing quite like that here at this time.
The Someday Lounge has started booking The Lions, and California/Brazilian acts Bate Makumba , and Sambada - and they have a pretty cool club - so that is promising.
What other groups/styles of music, locally or worldwide, were you influenced by?
In regards the Lions of Batucada - our most prominent influences would be the famous escolas in Rio de Janeiro - including, but not limited to - Mocidade Independente , Beija Flor, Mangueira, and Grande Rio, and the Bloco’s in Salvador, Bahia - such as Ile Aye, Olodum, Didja, and Timbalada.
As we are Americans interpreting the music of Brazil - we do add a little funk and other elements into the mix the way groups like MonoBloco in Rio do --- so I would also add them , and James Brown as an influence.
All of us have a huge range of listening interests, and I believe that too comes to play a part in our sound.
The most important factor for us musically and influence wise - is to have the proper , what is called “swingue” (swing).
We always strive for that.
It is not easy, but when it is right, it feels and sounds really great.
What would be your dream performance, locally or worldwide?
If there were an opportunity for The Lions of Batucada to perform in Brazil, I personally, would be thrilled.
We would also like to be the opening act for a U2 tour.
Locally, we are always open to, and looking for new challenges. As mentioned earlier - we enjoy collaborating, and open to dreams shared with?
How do you think the economy is affecting your group or other musical/artistic acts (both in Portland, and elsewhere, if you’d like to comment on that as well)?
With the Lions membership ranging anywhere from around forty (our present number), to at times as many as 178 (we added a 50 piece choir and dancers from all of the regional performing arts high schools to a Starlight parade one year) --- it has never been a consistent source of individual income for the groups members, but clearly a labor of love (much like in Brazil - where escolas often have baterias with upwards of 280 musicians).
The payback is the hard work done, the skills realized, the pride from that ---- and then watching our audiences literally jump out of their seats dancing.
While dollars do get distributed when in abundance, and we are definitely solvent --- it has never been about economics.
That said - folks hiring us these days are functioning with greatly reduced budgets, and so are offering us a bit less in return for our shows, and I’m guessing that might also be true for other local artists.
And a few of the larger events we have done over the years have been cancelled. One example: we just last year produced an attendance record setting “Brazil Night” at the Washington Park Concert Series (Samba de Roda, Marakatu, rappers from Sao Paulo, Capoeira Regional, The Lions) , and this year the festival does not exist (though I have now heard some local business folks are working to revive it).
Just like in the schools - when money gets tight, the arts programs get the short stick, and this reflects out into what the public gets to experience as well.
What is next for the group?
There are always a number of ideas running --- everything from a multi-media theater type performance to recording a CD, and of course the process of welcoming and training new members is on going. Pink Martini’s touring schedule makes realizing some plans a bit of a challenge, but our recruitment is strong ---- we conduct weekly dance and music classes (for adults and kids) in addition to the full ensemble rehearsals .... and dreams do take hold.
We have plenty of bookings, both public and private, and I sent Bono an email ..... maybe they will take us up on it.
I will be teaching at The Bahia Brazil Centers Kids Summer Rhythm Camp in late July , and at again this year at The California Brazil Camp in late August.
If any of your readers are interested in Brazilian culture, and samba music and dance in particular ----- appreciate the work involved to be good at something - then they should come check out our classes. www.lionsofbatucada.com
Is there anything else you would like to add?
Only that The Lions of Batucada , love performing for Portland, and that we hope to see you soon!
Thanks for your time,
Brian L. Davis
Founder, Director Lions of Batucada
“and at again “ this year at the California Brazil ____.
It should just read “and again”.
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